We caught up with author Robert S. Miller after reading his third published and full-length novel, The Uncrowned Champion. It’s probably his most complicated and ambitious work to date, told from the perspective of multiple characters. We asked him a few preliminary questions before thoroughly delving into the novel.
First of all, congratulations on publishing The Uncrowned Champion. It must have been quite the undertaking.
Yes, it ended at over 130,000 words, and I rewrote it at least three times. It’s got a little bit of drama, action, intrigue—something that will appeal to most readers. Originally, I began writing it in the third person, but then I decided to change it to the first person using a variety of narrators. You could say that I am greatly to blame for creating an incredible amount of work for myself.
Why did you give up on writing it in the third person?
It’s a personal quirk on my part that I like to write novels in first person. On the other hand, I write many of my short stories in third person. At least for me, when I write a novel in third person, I am tempted to interfere with the story rather than let the story tell itself. When I write from the perspective of one of my characters, I take that temptation away.
What is the inspiration for the stories you tell?
I don’t always know. I am sometimes as unsure where a story comes from as when I wake up and try to figure out why I had a certain dream. The unconscious, whatever that is, has some process for creating a story. The story unfolds as I tell it, and I am never sure where it will end. All of these characters that run around in my novel seem to have minds and personalities of their own, so I need to let them speak for themselves.
And is that why you use six different narrators in The Uncrowned Champion?
Maybe. For various reasons, I decided against writing the entire novel from Jack’s perspective. While almost illiterate, Jack is perceptive. However, he dislikes talking about himself, so I wanted other characters to describe his actions. Also, because he moves from place to place, there isn’t one person available to tell his entire story. That’s why there are multiple narrators. Each narrator had their turn to have their say.
I ended up, at one point, with Naomi entering the plot, who is very different from Jack. She plays a large part in the novel and is a talker. But since much of what happens takes place before we get to Naomi, I had other characters describe Jack before he met her.
Were there any other works of writers who influenced you when it came to narrating the novel in this manner?
No. The one novel I know of using multiple narrators in the first person was William Faulkner’s The Sound and the Fury, but The Uncrowned Champion doesn’t come close to being that complicated to read. Nor am I trying to compare myself to him—I wish I could be in that class.
I stick to telling the story chronologically, and my novel doesn’t rely on as many hidden themes as Faulkner’s. In the 1920s and ’30s, Faulkner had to worry more about censors and having his books banned.
So what gave you the idea for this novel? Or, how did it start sinking into your conscious mind?
The beginning of The Uncrowned Champion has been in my mind probably since childhood. Jack is a sort of modern-day Jim Thorpe, and I read a biography of Thorpe when I was in sixth grade. Jim Thorpe grew up on an Oklahoma Indian reservation, goes to Carlisle, becomes known for his athletic skills, goes to the Olympics, wins gold medals, and eventually becomes a professional football and baseball player. But, because he received travel money for playing baseball during the summers before participating in the 1912 Olympics—probably not enough money to pay his expenses—Olympic officials used that as an excuse to strip him of his gold medals. Many people say he was stripped of his gold medals only because he was Native American.
The biography I read (possibly as fictional as my novel) told a story about Thorpe as a young boy on the reservation, leaping a gully while playing Follow-the-Leader. Thorpe wins because the other boys didn’t dare jump over it themselves. I altered the events slightly in my novel by having Jack and his friends flee for their lives, running from a couple of murderous teenage delinquents out to maim and torture them. Jack leaps over a gully during the chase and thwarts their intentions. That scene led to many others to follow in over 400 pages of writing.
Anyway, like Jim Thorpe, Jack is great at several different sports—especially baseball and boxing. By the way, I once read that Rocky Marciano, former heavyweight champion, had once considered playing minor league ball. But that’s another story. In my novel, Jack ends up playing minor league ball. He never gets his chance to win a championship belt since boxing has become corrupt and since all the so-called champions are scared to fight him. Thus, the title, The Uncrowned Champion.
The novel does contain an incredible amount of detail concerning boxing. Where did all of that come from?
Digging through boxing books, listening to interviews of fighters, and watching the old fights. As a kid, I watched every fight I could on television and listened closely to the commentators. I also got to know a boxing referee several years ago, and he told me about all sorts of conversations he had with boxers. For instance, he told me how surprisingly articulate some of them could be when they weren’t putting on a show for the camera. Also, about ten years ago, I picked up this book describing the various workouts of championship boxers. I went and bought myself some boxing equipment, tried out the different workouts, and, I think, learned quite a bit along the way.
I tried not to romanticize the sport. I lost a great deal of enjoyment for boxing a long time ago. For one, the damage boxing did to Muhammad Ali was obvious whenever you saw him on camera during his later years. The boxing commissions didn’t care because he brought in millions of dollars. Also, around the 1980s, we discovered a great deal more about drug use surrounding boxing. Some boxers used drugs to win fights, and some used drugs to numb the pain. Boxers were dying because of overdoses and addiction.
I ended the novel in the 1990s because I didn’t want readers to think that Jack took part in drug use—or was in any way connected with the corruption or politics of boxing. Because Jack didn’t play by their complicated set of rules, boxing’s sanctioning committees would never give him a chance.
But The Uncrowned Champion isn’t just a story of corruption. From reading it, it appears to be more of a character study. Can you go into more detail about that?
Yes. It’s very much a character study. At least I hope that comes across. Years ago, I wrote a story called “Indian Joe.” It’s the one short story everyone seems to remember of everything I wrote. Indian Joe, maybe the toughest hombre ever, lives in poverty and only makes his way through life by bullying everyone he meets. And while I am proud that readers like that story, I wanted to write about someone who was every bit as tough as Indian Joe but did not turn out to be a villain.
Like Indian Joe, Jack is born poor, faces the same hardships and sometimes resorts to violence to get by. But Jack is not a bully and is capable of tenderness. While writing The Uncrowned Champion, I found it took more than a few words to describe this because Jack really is a complex character. He’s not the dumb-but-cuddly Rocky Balboa of the Rocky films nor the brutish Jake LaMotta of Raging Bull—movies containing almost as much realism as a professional wrestling bout.
So much for discussing the cinema then. How about some of the other characters? Say, Naomi, Jessica, and Pat? What would you say about them?
Naomi is probably the hardest character to describe in the book. She’s a spoiled, smart, and somewhat naive girl, who overthinks almost everything. In some ways, she is almost as innocent of a character as Jack. Naomi, who tries (not always successfully) to be a good and religious girl, is the last person who should get hooked up with prize fighters, yet that’s exactly what happens. She always is open to new experiences. In many ways, Naomi grows up with Jack.
But will the reader think Naomi is so innocent after reading her description of her taking a swim with Jack?
I don’t want to spoil that part for the reader, but I think she is innocent and passionate. For her, every experience with Jack feels like it is brand new.
What would you say about Jessica?
Jessica is the most devious character in the book, but she is also remarkably courageous. One of the most memorable scenes in the novel is, while close to seven months pregnant, she takes a baseball bat to her abusive husband.
Jessica’s problem is that she is so driven by her unique and warped vision of the world that she cannot live with anyone who does not share her standards. She can’t even forgive Jack for thinking differently from herself.
How about Pat?
I can picture exactly what Pat looks like, and my copy editor, Lisa, told me that Pat was perhaps her favorite character in the novel. Pat is a funny, kind, and, in his own way, wise person who is beaten up badly by the boxing establishment. Like Jack, he refuses to comply with their standards. Unlike Jack, there isn’t anything else he knows how to do besides box.
Pat is partially based on a Minnesota boxer who was once a contender for the middleweight championship. Like Pat, the powers that be in the boxing world never gave that boxer a chance. What happened was he got so beat up training for bouts that were constantly postponed that he ended up a has-been. Pat is likely to end up in the same situation; but despite that, Pat remains always loyal to the people he cares for.
Are there any autobiographical elements to the novel?
Some. I wish there were more because Jack does some impressive things. He was a great athlete in high school. Unfortunately, at that age, I gave up on almost everything I began, which Jack never did. Hopefully, I’ve learned a bit as I’ve grown older not to give up on things so easily.
Anyway, I’ve seen quite a bit of what Jack had seen traveling about—including the Chickasaw reservation I saw in Oklahoma. A significant portion of the novel takes place in Minnesota, which I know about extremely well.
I suppose every piece of writing contains some autobiographical elements. Every writer tries to use as much experience as they can, but a lot of it is probably made up because we don’t always remember things right.
What are the things you tried to do with The Uncrowned Champion, and do you think you succeeded?
I tried to say almost everything I could with this novel, and I’m sure I came up short. But I wanted my novel to talk about some people who lived full lives, despite everything else. I wanted to dive deep into a rugged and capable character who also happened to be a kind human being.
In some ways, Pat and Jack are the typical American loners, driven by something, always looking for something more. The quote I provide from Hunter S. Thompson at the beginning of my book gives a little idea of what I tried to convey: [“Myths and legends die hard in America. We love them for the extra dimension they provide, the illusion of near-infinite possibility to erase the narrow confines of most men's reality. Weird heroes and mould-breaking champions exist as living proof to those who need it that the tyranny of 'the rat race' is not yet final.”]
Are you trying to make some sort of veiled commentary in the novel concerning working-class conditions or class consciousness? Jack came from an Indian reservation, and his father was a longshoreman. And Pat’s father was killed while driving a truck, and his mother was a heavy smoker and drinker.
If there is, it is veiled. Sure, Jack and Pat come from poverty and mostly behave better than the rich people in the story, but I’m not sure I’d stretch the analogy further than that. Jack is either unaware of the differences between rich and poor or doesn’t care. Jack never feels sorry for himself. And any problems Pat encounters arise because he won’t follow senseless rules. It doesn’t bother him that someone has more money than him.
Anyway, I have my ideas like everyone else—maybe right or wrong—but it would benefit no one to shoot off my mouth about how we don’t understand the poor. The only character who seems particularly aware of class differences is Naomi—and she feels guilty about never having been without money. Naomi, the most intelligent character in the book, never knows what to make of Jack and Pat. If Naomi were to discuss working conditions with Pat or Jack, Jack would probably wonder what she was talking about, and Pat would tease her for being too sensitive.
Besides, The Uncrowned Champion could be as much a Horatio Alger rags-to-riches story as one about the working class. Or it could be a modern dime store Western, where Pat and Jack are always moving to the next town to flee the authorities or pursue their next undertaking. Though I know my novel will never have that kind of readership, I think it is like Saul Bellow’s The Adventures of Augie March. Augie is a poor Jewish boy from Chicago who is several times within arm’s reach of vast wealth, but Augie always walks away from the riches because of the feeling that there is something wrong with how he’d have to obtain it. In that way, Augie achieves a sort of anonymous nobility.
I’ll stop answering this question now because I think I’m talking too much.
Fair enough. Let’s see: You published Sammy: A Celebration of Innocence a little over a year ago? And now you published The Uncrowned Champion. How has the experience of being a published author felt to you?
It’s been a good experience, but I wish I were a better marketer. I think the rules for getting attention in the publishing industry are more difficult to follow than the rules Jack and Pat had to follow to get a championship fight. It’s hard enough to get people to read your work. It is even more of a challenge to find someone to give it a thoughtful review. And don’t get me started on how useless it is to receive a particular star rating on Amazon—especially when whoever gives the rating does not provide any review to back the rating up. Anyway, I wish I could find someone to handle those aspects of publishing a book.
Maybe you could consider celebrity endorsements?
Yes, I’m sure they are all lining up to review my book. Also, I’m not sure all celebrities can read. I’d ask Pope Francis for a review, but I’m not sure how to go about doing that.
But back to our original question about your experiences as a published author.
I feel fortunate to be able to put a novel together. Writing fiction makes me expand the way I view the world. When I say it right, maybe even get a reader to laugh, I know I’m getting closer to whatever makes writing fiction worthwhile. And I think I’m getting better at it with each try. I placed quite a bit of humor and honesty into my first novel, As Sparks Fly Upward, but there was also a pessimism that I don’t feel anymore. In Sammy: A Celebration of Innocence, my protagonist redeems himself for his earlier misdeeds by handling a tremendous loss while also preserving his integrity.
I published a dozen short stories in Tidings of Calm and Storm, where I discussed a wide range of topics and themes. I wish I could get more people to read the stories because I touched upon lots of themes. And, because I wanted to discuss many of the same things in greater detail, I came up with the idea of writing a novel—The Uncrowned Champion. I think The Uncrowned Champion is my most positive and life-affirming book to date. It’s just a longer read.
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